In this interview, Hon. Obi Aguocha, member representing Ikwuano/Umuahia North/Umuahia South Federal Constituency of Abia State in the House of Representatives, speaks on the continued detention of the leader of the Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB), Mazi Nnamdi Kanu, and efforts of South-East leaders to secure his release, among other issues.
What is your thought on getting the lawyers of the detained separatist leader, Nnamdi Kanu, who haven’t visited him since September or gained access to him, but they issued a statement thanking you and commending you for your effort in that regard. How did you pull it off?
The lawyers approached me sometime in September, not just as somebody who is at the forefront of the advocacy, but also as Mazi Nnamdi Kanu’s representative at the Federal House. Mazi Nnamdi Kanu is from Umuahia North and I’m also from Umuahia North. We grew up together and we played soccer in Umuahia. So, he’s somebody well-known. Both families are well-known to each other.
So, it is my utmost responsibility as a Federal House member representing him to speak for him, where no one else would speak for him. Not just for him, but for many others in that gap who may be facing one challenge or the other, especially in the administration of criminal justice as it pertains to Nigeria. So, I’ve been speaking about him. We’ve started to make some headway.
Previously, it was very combative between the government’s approach and of course, Mazi Nnamdi Kanu’s legal team approach. So, they approached me to say, well, for over some time, they’ve not had access to him. So, I wrote to the Director of Department of State Services {DSS}. He responded. Rather than escalate it in the chamber of the House of Representatives, I chose to involve my Speaker.
We had a tripartite meeting between myself, the Speaker and the DG of DSS and we resolved some of the issues pending when the lawyers will come together because the matter is still in court. The judge handling the matter was also involved in the process. But last week was the first time that the lawyers were given access to him at the directive of the DG of DSS, who I commend tremendously.
He has come to this position, a very difficult position in handling a very sensitive issue. But he has come in this position also being mindful that the issue at hand is very sensitive and he’s putting a human face.
This is a democratic country, and in a democracy, people have the right to a legal defence team in whatever circumstance they find themselves in. So, it is Nnamdi Kanu’s legal right; isn’t it?
It is a legal issue, like I said in my earlier statement that is well known to both parties. It stemmed from Mazi Nnamdi Kanu’s legal team requesting a recusal of the judge. The judge recused herself and so the position of the DG of DSS or the position of the government, now becomes that since the judge has recused herself from the matter, there are no longer issues of consultation between the lawyers and Mazi Nnamdi Kanu.
However, even some of the applications that were made in court were withdrawn. Because the same question would have been asked, well, if the same judge had recused herself, and all the decisions of the judge, as the government had claimed, were a nullity, then the same judge was the one that gave the detention order for Mazi Nnamdi Kanu. So, that ought to have rendered that also as a nullity.
Does his legal right to ask for a judge to be recused if he feels that he’s not getting fair trial treatment has anything to do with his right to have access to his lawyers?
I perfectly agree with you. That was the position we took. That was the position even in the meeting between myself, the Speaker and the DG DSS. I took that position and Mr. Speaker concurred with that position. Even the DG DSS concurred. Now, while saying thank you, the DG could have easily come to that meeting, feigned ignorance of the law, and say no, well, let’s start a squabble, let’s keep going at each other.
They will release one press statement and Kanu’s lawyers will release their own statement. But he recognizes the position of the law and sets aside the office of DG DSS, who could have come in as a cowboy. But he then said, no, I want things to be done properly. He gave the room to allow myself, the Speaker, and the lawyers of Nnamdi Kanu to be engaged in finding a solution that would enable both sides, at least to begin to talk and have access to Mazi Nnamdi Kanu.
It’s not just that. There were issues as well concerning the health of Nnamdi Kanu. It was rumoured that he was dead, and it was rumoured that he was ill, which I also asked the DG. The DG for the first time, allowed Nnamdi Kanu to choose a doctor of his own choice, and at the same time, allowed him also to choose a medical facility beyond the government medical facilities for his treatment. Nnamdi Kanu has exercised that privilege and will continue as well.
So, he has now gone to the hospital to see a doctor…
Yes, and the last time he went was in October and he confirmed it to me because part of my efforts was also to see him, to discuss with him, to know his thought process as to everything that is going around, and also to brief him, and to make him understand the circumstances around. And he assured me that he was comfortable with the doctor that he chose, and he’s comfortable with the medical facility that he chose as well to go to.
So, on issues of access and issues of management of his health, I can say that this current DG of SSS has been very cordial, and has been very respectful, much more than in the past. That was why I said he had shown a human face.
But in the larger scheme of things, how much does it move the needle forward in terms of getting Kanu closer to breathing the air of freedom?
I can tell you that a lot of things have been done, not just by me, but by well-meaning Nigerians and stakeholders, who have found this to be an issue of injustice; who have also found this to appear that there are two sets of rules in Nigeria, one for every other Nigerian, and another one for the Igbo man. Where every other Nigerian will scale certain circumstances, the Igbo man will find it very difficult to scale.
But what we thought would have been more meaningful is the invocation of section 174 of the Nigerian Constitution that allows the Attorney General, before the determination or a judgement of the court to withdraw the matter. Some precedents have already been set on this. So, we are just asking that the way they have done for Sunday Igboho, the way they have done for Omoyele Sowore and many others, that Nnamdi Kanu is entitled to those fundamental rights as a citizen.
You mentioned section 174 of the Nigerian Constitution. In June, you made a direct appeal to President Bola Tinubu along with dozens of your colleagues at the National Assembly, urging him to order the Attorney General to discontinue the case based on section 174, which gives him the power to end the trial in the public interest and in the interest of justice. Did you ever hear back from the President or the Attorney General?
As I said, we’ve met with the Attorney General several times. I’ve also met with his Chief of Staff to Mr. President and many other government functionaries. The only person I have not met one-on-one is Mr. President. And for obvious reasons, he has to be satisfied with the legal position. He also has to be satisfied with the security positions. So, much has been happening. The confidentiality of that is also what I said as a government officer, I can’t reveal but I am very optimistic.
My governor, Dr Alex Otti, also recently talked about it. I haven’t met Mr. President but some assurances were given to my governor by the President. Those assurances that have been given to my governor remain consistent with the assurances also that I have been given and the things that I have worked with certain circles that have been put up for this. I’m very optimistic that within no distant time, Nnamdi Kanu will be released from detention.
Whether he’s going to be released by the invocation of section 174 or whether he’s going to be granted bail, the Supreme Court after all said that the lower court ought not to have revoked his bail considering the circumstances that he faced before he absconded. Meaning the military came to his home, ransacked his home, and he escaped. Possibly if he was there, he would have been shot dead just like many others.
The Supreme Court held that under the circumstances, his action of running away was justifiable. That’s what the Supreme Court said. Since they have already said that he cannot be denied bail, it is also our desire that if bail can be granted to him, I am willing and able to countersign that bail, so that he can have the ability to leave detention at least to be able to take care of himself, see his family and undertake other activities.
In terms of the case against him, the last we heard was that he was facing seven counts of terrorism as well as belonging to a proscribed organisation, which is IPOB. Is that still the case against him?
Yes, those are the current charges. They have not added more charges because you never know that these things are very dynamic. However, the question we ought to be able to ask is: Is Nnamdi Kanu legally in Nigeria? The answer is no. The extradition that brought him to Nigeria was illegal. That’s what the Supreme Court said. They can try all they want to do, but they cannot try to convict Nnamdi Kanu because the Supreme Court said you shouldn’t have brought him here in the first instance.
There are legal processes that ought to have happened between the Nigerian state and Kenya for Nigeria to seek the extradition of Nnamdi Kanu, rather than going over there, forcefully kidnapping him and bringing him back to Nigeria. I think since there’s a precedent, the most important thing that the Nigerian state should do is to seek a political solution that will end this nightmare for everybody and frustration for Nnamdi Kanu, and in turn bring about peace and stability in the South-East.
You have consistently argued that Nnamdi Kanu’s freedom will address the security situation in the South-East and boost the image of President Tinubu in the zone. Is that still your position?
Not just the image of President Tinubu, but also boost the image of the South-East. The people of the South-East are very industrious and peaceful by nature. Our disposition is built on a specific character that talks about that you have a fundamental right to exist and we also have a fundamental right to exist. After all, there is no tribe in Nigeria that is more nationalistic than the Igbo.
Anywhere you go to in the country, you see brick and mortar, permanent fixtures put up by the Igbo, which means that they have identified those places as places they can live, places they can raise their families and places they can work. Unlike most other Nigerians who even come to Igbo land, their presence in the South-East is more transitional, meaning they come for one specific thing or the other. Once that is done, they move on.
Nnamdi Kanu, like I said, in my private visit to him has said that he believes in the economic development of the South-East. And President Tinubu, having signed the South East Development Commission Bill into law, is a good start for the rehabilitation and reconstruction of the zone since post-civil war. Nobody is against that and Nnamdi Kanu has called for an economic renaissance that will make the states to work together for the common good, not just for the South-East but for Nigeria.
If the South-East is fixed and there are enough opportunities, every other person will come to the zone to participate in the economic activities there. Nnamdi Kanu has renounced violence and the Mondays’ stay-at-home that has ravaged the economic activities of the South-East, and he has also renounced the high level of crime and criminality, banditry and assassination that are prevalent in the zone as we speak.
Christmas time is coming; how many people are willing to go home? If we take Nnamdi Kanu out of this factor, we will now know those who are responsible for the crimes and criminality in the South-East because they are now benefiting from the economics of high crime. Yes, it will take some time, but the first step to that time is to be able to get Nnamdi Kanu out.
Beyond the points that you’ve made, how much does this raise questions for you as a lawmaker about the respect that this country’s rulers, if you like, have for the judiciary?
Yes, there have been repeated cases of violation of court orders by the state in the past, so where lies the moral obligation or responsibility of the state to continue to detain Nnamdi Kanu? It’s very frustrating but you have to keep moving. I wake up every single day thinking about what I have to do more to ensure that my constituent, Nnamdi Kanu is free.
He is my primary responsibility, not just him, but many others and I’m speaking for every issue that concerns injustice. Now, it’s frustrating in the management of the administration of criminal justice, it doesn’t swing in one direction, just like many others have swung in that direction, where many people who were charged in the same way they charged Nnamdi Kanu for treasonable offences have all themselves been, at the determination of the court, and rightfully so, I’m not saying that is wrong.
But at the determination of the court, the court said let them go. So why do you continue to keep Nnamdi Kanu? And I’ve said it can be just ethnic colourations or tribal colourations or religious colourations, but some people are satisfied in allowing him to be there to rot to death.
To be fair, Sowore for example, wasn’t leading a separatist movement of armed people, although he called it RevolutionNow…
Is Nnamdi leading an armed group? The answer is no. That’s what the government says. And has the government been able to prove it? Let me tell you this. Just like when I went to visit former President Muhammadu Buhari; I said to President Buhari that I’m sorry for every unpleasant utterance that my brother may have made against you, because one, you are the President. He’s not. You’re an elder statesman. He’s not. So we still are Africans. We have respect for elders. There are certain ways that you can talk to your age mates, and there are also ways that you should not talk to your elders.
So, to the extent that some of his utterances may have been found wanting, I’m here to say I am sorry. It is the responsibility of a father to smack a child and then use the other hand to break it. After, I spent almost two and a half hours with him. After the discussions, he said, son, for your humility and the manner that you’ve approached this issue and that you’ve also come to me, I will not oppose any political solutions or ideas that would lead to Nnamdi Kanu’s release from detention.
In terms of the face of it, you’re no closer at this point to breaking the chains that continue to bind Nnamdi Kanu and keeping him firmly under lock and key…
We’re very close. As a government officer, I’m also trying to maintain a cloak of secrecy and confidentiality. But my confidence has grown because the government, at least, is engaging unlike previously, when they didn’t want to engage. Now, we are talking. Now, when we raise objections about this and that, they are helping us to move the needle and to move the gauge and everything further.
But I believe that in the nearest or shortest possible time, as my governor recently said, Nnamdi Kanu will be free and the South-East will be free from high crimes and criminality, banditry and assassinations that are now commonplace. South easterners can now go home to do their business, see their families, and be more engaged.
Credit: The Sun